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Hello- I have an unusual problem perhaps someone could shed some light on: I have a TR-4 in 29K serial range that functions normally except it will not go back into receive, until after approx 30 second delay, after the mic button is released or the function switch turned back to "SSB". This condition worsens (longer delay) the more you frequently you transmit. The sidetone disappears but T-R relay will not release. I have tried different known-good 6EV7 tubes, have replaced a lot of the coupling / bypass caps in T-R circuits, did resistance / voltage checks, adjusted the VOX / VOX delay controls, tried other tubes in T-R circuit, etc. to no avail. What is real curious about this is that while waiting for it to go back into receive and T-R relay is engaged, IF YOU PULL THE 6EV7 FROM ITS SOCKET THE T-R RELAY STILL DOES NOT RELEASE. I suspect the issue is with the lead that goes from T-R relay coil to pin #1 on 6EV7 (somehow allowing enough leakage to ground?) or could it be the T-R relay coil itself I made sure socket / pins and all are clean on 6EV7.   X 铮? S

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Postquam approbatur, solum codicem in tuum situm inseres et advertit, in tuo situ proponere incipies, et ab omni visitatore, qui terras tuas situs incipe merere. Multi bloggers in orbe terrarum promerendae usque ad $3,000 omni mense ab Google Adsense sunt.? 铮? RInteresting.分分飞艇心得体会  Y

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  O "Byron Tatum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> made an utterance to the drakelist gang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Garey- Thank you for the comments and help. I start nights at work and will have several to complete, then I will get back into the TR-4. I will measure voltage as you suggest, looking for a slight voltage drop. Then I will check out relay itself. I am beginning to think that it is the magnetizing of pole piece and relay wear that is the problem. If it was a leakage to ground on the 6EV7 pin #1 lead you might think the set would go into TX on its own (relay energize) every now and then, of which I have never saw it do. One other thing- I bought a nice TR-4 from a fellow, based on several pictures, but the photo angles, due to glare, covered up (of all things) a ham's DL # engraved on the front panel in tiny lettering , immediately to the right of "TR-4" on front panel. Do you know of a touch up paint that matches the darker grey of that front panel area? I got the set for a decent price, it was nice and had the built in NB, but had a problem (as advertised). I found T-9 to be burned out in center area of coil form. I had a spare T-9 from a parts unit TR-3. Thank goodness I opened up the TR-3 T-9 transformer before I installed it -- it had a 56 pF cap in it that was not in the TR-4 T-9. Otherwise the coils looked the same. Anyway, I clipped out the capacitor and all went OK after the repair. That is not a fun repair for sure!!   P

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I saw once where the relay iron core was expanding do to the heat the coil generated around it, which to this point is normal. But in this case as the core expanded it shorted against a bare coil winding. The core itself being at ground potential, when shorted against the coil winding provided the ground path to key the relay. Once the relay was unkeyed by removing power, it cooled, and worked again as normal until it heated up again. So don't put aside the possibility of a heat related problem in the relay itself. Ron / WB4HFN -------------- Original message -------------- From: Garey Barrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Garey Barrell made an utterance to the drakelist gang > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Byron - > > OK. Relays take more coil current to "pull in" than they do to "hold > in". It takes a certain amount of current through the coil (pull) to > drag the armature from it's non-energized position to the energized > position. It takes much less current to (hold) it once there, so slight > leakage might NOT be sufficient to pull, but more than enough to hold. > > I don't know of any good way to touch up the panels. The original > "paint" is so thin, (I actually think it is more a dye (anodize?) than > paint, but don't know for sure,) and as a result any sort of paint ends > up looking worse than the mark! For a small mark or two, it might be > possible to just "fill" the mark to the level of the panel, but a string > of numbers would be a real challenge. Never could understand people > that do that sort of thing, especially on the front panel!! > > I just saw your order. There are scans of both the 34-NB and the 34-PNB > manuals, with quite a bit of information, plus I have added a photograph > of the board itself with active components and alignment info > annotated. There is also a Voltage table for the NB, which has not been > previously published. It's really a straightforward design, and most > units in the field benefit from an alignment. > > A lot of the components are common between the TR-3 and TR-4, but every > once in a while they threw in a curve like that cap to keep us off > balance! :-) > < BR>> Your CDs will go out tomorrow. Thank you! > > 73, Garey - K4OAH > Glen Allen, VA > > Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line & TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs > > > > > Byron Tatum wrote: > > > > "Byron Tatum" made an utterance to the drakelist gang > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hey Garey- > > Thank you for the comments and help. I start nights at work and > > will have several to complete, then I will get back into the TR-4. I > > will measure voltage as you suggest, looking for a slight voltage > > drop. Then I will check out relay itself. > > I am beginning to think that it is the magnetizing of pole piece > > and relay wear that is the problem. If it was a leakage to ground on > > the 6EV7 pin #1 lead you might think the set wo uld go into TX on its > > own (relay energize) every now and then, of which I have never saw it do. > > One other thing- I bought a nice TR-4 from a fellow, based on > > several pictures, but the photo angles, due to glare, covered up (of > > all things) a ham's DL # engraved on the front panel in tiny lettering > > , immediately to the right of "TR-4" on front panel. Do you know of a > > touch up paint that matches the darker grey of that front panel area? > > I got the set for a decent price, it was nice and had the built in > > NB, but had a problem (as advertised). I found T-9 to be burned out in > > center area of coil form. I had a spare T-9 from a parts unit TR-3. > > Thank goodness I opened up the TR-3 T-9 transformer before I installed > > it -- it had a 56 pF cap in it that was not in the TR-4 T-9. Otherwise > > the coils looked the same. Anyway, I clipp ed out the capacitor and all > > went OK after the repair. That is not a fun repair for sure!! > > CUL, Byron. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garey Barrell" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:46 PM > > Subject: Re: [drakelist] TR-4 TX Hang-Up > > > > > >> Byron - > >> > >> Well things were going well until you pulled the tube out of the > >> socket! :-) > >> > >> There are a limited number of possibilities in that case. The relay > >> coil leads go through the feedthrough bypass caps _under_ the power > >> connector. Of course the relay lead to the 6EV7 is the one UNDER the > >> Jones connector, the last one in the "arc" of feedthroughs there. > >> (C92) There are no more components between this feedthrough and t he > >> 6EV7 tube socket. The other relay coil lead goes directly the +250V bus > >> via the next feedthrough cap along the arc, (C91). So the voltage > >> measured at the tube socket pin with the tube out should be exactly the > >> same as the +250V bus. Any drop would indicate leakage. See attached > >> photo from my CD (at reduced resolution). > >> > >> So..... Leaky C92, leaky tube socket, pinched wire. One possibility I > >> have seen a few times is the "down" stop on the relay gets hammered down > >> over the years, allowing the armature to actually touch the pole piece > >> of the coil. The pole piece is slightly magnetized, and if the armature > >> physically is in contact with it, it will "stick". An easy check is to > >> slip a piece of paper in to prevent metal to metal contact between the > >> two. The " down" stop can be bent back up to prevent this contact. > >> > >> Let us know what you find!! > >> > >> 73, Garey - K4OAH > >> Glen Allen, VA > >> > >> Drake 2-B, 4-B, C-Line & TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Byron Tatum wrote: > >>> Hello- > >>> I have an unusual problem perhaps someone could shed some light on: > >>> I have a TR-4 in 29K serial range that functions normally > >>> except it will not go back into receive, until after approx 30 second > >>> delay, after the mic button is released or the function switch turned > >>> back to "SSB". This condition worsens (longer delay) the more you > >>> frequently you transmit. The sidetone disappears but T-R relay will > >>> not release. > >>> I have tried different known-good 6EV7 tubes, have replaced a lot > >>> of the coupling / bypass caps in T-R circuits, did resistance / > >>> voltage checks, adjusted the VOX / VOX delay controls, tried other > >>> tubes in T-R circuit, etc. to no avail. > >>> What is real curious about this is that while waiting for it to go > >>> back into receive and T-R relay is engaged, IF YOU PULL THE 6EV7 FROM > >>> ITS SOCKET THE T-R RELAY STILL DOES NOT RELEASE. I suspect the issue > >>> is with the lead that goes from T-R relay coil to pin #1 on 6EV7 > >>> (somehow allowing enough leakage to ground?) or could it be the T-R > >>> relay coil itself I made sure socket / pins and all are clean on > >>> 6EV7. > >>> Any help appreciated, thanks. > >>> Perpl exed, > >>> Byron WA5THJ. > >>> > >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in > > body > > Hopelessly Lost: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message > > Zerobeat Web Page: - sponsored by > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Submissions: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - unsubscribe drakelist in body > Hopelessly Lost: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - help in body of message > Zerobeat Web Page: - sponsored by > ---------- ------------------------------------------------------------ 铮? 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 MNew transaction broadcasts do not necessarily need to reach all nodes. As long as they reach many nodes, they will get into a block before long. Block broadcasts are also tolerant of dropped messages. If a node does not receive a block, it will request it when it receives the next block and realizes it missed one. 6. Incentive By convention, the first transaction in a block is a special transaction that starts a new coin owned by the creator of the block. This adds an incentive for nodes to support the network, and provides a way to initially distribute coins into circulation, since there is no central authority to issue them. The steady addition of a constant of amount of new coins is analogous to gold miners expending resources to add gold to circulation. In our case, it is CPU time and electricity that is expended. The incentive can also be funded with transaction fees. If the output value of a transaction is less than its input value, the difference is a transaction fee that is added to the incentive value of the block containing the transaction. Once a predetermined number of coins have entered circulation, the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees and be completely inflation free. The incentive may help encourage nodes to stay honest. If a greedy attacker is able to assemble more CPU power than all the honest nodes, he would have to choose between using it to defraud people by stealing back his payments, or using it to generate new coins. He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules, such rules that favour him with more new coins than everyone else combined, than to undermine the system and the validity of his own wealth. 7. Reclaiming Disk Space Once the latest transaction in a coin is buried under enough blocks, the spent transactions before it can be discarded to save disk space. To facilitate this without breaking the block's hash, transactions are hashed in a Merkle Tree [7][2][5], with only the root included in the block's hash. Old blocks can then be compacted by stubbing off branches of the tree. The interior hashes do not need to be stored. Block Hash0 Hash1 Hash2 Hash3 Tx0 Tx1 Tx2 Tx3 Block Header (Block Hash) Prev Hash Nonce Root Hash Hash01 Hash23 Block Block Header (Block Hash) Prev Hash Nonce Root Hash Hash01 Hash23 Hash2 Hash3 Tx3 Transactions Hashed in a Merkle Tree After Pruning Tx0-2 from the Block A block header with no transactions would be about 80 bytes. If we suppose blocks are generated every 10 minutes, 80 bytes * 6 * 24 * 365=4.2MB per year. With computer systems typically selling with 2GB of RAM as of 2008, and Moore's Law predicting current growth of 1.2GB per year, storage should not be a problem even if the block headers must be kept in memory. 4铮? O

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